Episode 4: From Disruption to Opportunity: How to Adapt Leadership for any Environment with Tom Ziglar
“That coach commitment is a commitment to grow yourself so you can help other people help other people achieve their dreams. And there's nothing better than sleeping at night knowing that other people are achieving their dreams because of your input.” —Tom Ziglar
During disruptive times, it's not enough to simply become empowered. Leaders must know how to stay empowered as well. Having the ability to sustain our sense of strength is needed to provide the steady guidance that teams rely on during uncertainty. Hence, true empowerment is an endless journey, not a single achievement.
In this episode, Scott interviews Tom Ziglar, the son of legendary motivational speaker, Zig Ziglar. Tom continues his father’s legacy as the CEO of Ziglar Inc. With over 50 years of experience in personal and professional development, Tom equips leaders and coaches worldwide to achieve their fullest potential.
Stream this episode and hear Tom speak about the benefits and challenges of following in his father's footsteps while forging his own path, insights from his bestselling book 10 Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times, how AI technology is changing businesses, bridging the skills gap from leadership to coaching, succession planning for leadership, and so much more.
Connect with Tom:
Tom Ziglar is the CEO of Ziglar Inc., continuing the legacy of his father Zig Ziglar, one of the most famous motivational speakers of all time. With over 59 years of experience in personal development, leadership, coaching, and sales, Tom has become a renowned speaker and author in his own right.
When not running Ziglar Inc., Tom still speaks at conferences and companies, sharing his wealth of industry knowledge and experience. He lives in Dallas, Texas with his wife.
Episode Highlights:
01:01 Continuing a Legacy
07:08 10 Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times
11:12 Building People, Not Just Business
18:10 Creating a Culture of Accountability and Personal Responsibility
26:02 Leveraging Tech to Enhance Business Operations
33:03 The Importance of Developing Oneself
Resources:
🎙️ 10 Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times by Tom Ziglar
Stay empowered through disruptive times! Listen in as @reiblaw and @TomZiglar share how to develop leaders who, in turn, develop leaders with virtues-based coaching. #Podcast #PodcastLaunch #TheShatterproofEntrepreneur #entrepreneurialjourney #LeadershipLessons #CoachingSkills #VirtueDriven #CharacterMatters #FutureProofYourBusiness #BuildAnUnbreakableLegacy #DevelopingLeaders #HarnessTechnology #CoachLeadership
Quotes:
02:38 “It was always not who's right, but what's right.” —Tom Ziglar
05:17 “You just got to take your gifts and talents and elevate them, and be yourself when you go out there.” —Tom Ziglar
10:06 “A huge majority of people who quit their job quit because their current job wasn't filling their soul. It wasn't what they were made for.” —Tom Ziglar
10:56 “Disruption is evergreen, it's only going to increase.” —Tom Ziglar
13:18 “You don't just build people, you build people that are gonna build people.” —Scott Reib
15:46 “Wisdom usually comes from mistakes. Wisdom usually comes from trying something that didn't work, and you have to go back and make it right. Wisdom is hard-earned. And humility is the root of wisdom” —Tom Ziglar
17:15 “People think humility means you're weak when it actually means you're super strong. It means that you can own your decision and change direction because it's what's best for the organization and what's best for the relationships that you're entrusted with.” —Tom Ziglar
24:36 “AI in general is going to dramatically change the way we do business across the world. And so the question is, do you look at that as a threat to the way you've always done business? Or do you look at it as a technology that doesn't replace a relationship, but instead allows us to have a deeper and more meaningful relationship with the value we deliver.” —Tom Ziglar
31:23 “That coach commitment is a commitment to grow yourself so you can help other people help other people achieve their dreams. And there's nothing better than sleeping at night knowing that other people are achieving their dreams because of your input.” —Tom Ziglar
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Transcription:
Scott Reib: Welcome to The Shatterproof Entrepreneur. I'm your host, Scott Reib. I have a special treat for you today, we have Tom Ziglar, and a special guest.
Welcome to the show, Tom.
Tom Ziglar: It's so good to be here, man. Thanks for having me on. I love what you're doing. And of course, you treat us well, so it's a double A double pleasure to be here.
Scott Reib: Thanks, Tom. I could not introduce you well enough so we just got to tell the world who you are and what you do.
Tom Ziglar: First off, I think I'm the most blessed human being on the planet. My father was Zig Ziglar who was as good as he was on stage. He was even better off stage. He said, you never would have heard of Zig Ziglar if it wasn't for the redhead, my mom. And he was right. So having those two parents just really blessed me and set me up. I'll be 59 in February. I tell the world I've been doing this for 59 years, I was born into it. The whole personal development, leadership, coaching, sales, all of those things. That's what I'm really passionate about. That's what I've been doing my whole life. And so now, what we do is we take all that intellectual property, all the five decades worth of content, material, track record, brand and all of that and we equipped, really leaders, coaches and speakers to take this message forward and impact their communities. So I've got a beautiful daughter, Alexandra, who's 29. Charlie, my grand puppy. Alexandra is married to Zack, they'll be married three years in January. So that's crazy. They live about 20 minutes. And my wife, we've been married 36 years. So congratulations.
Scott Reib: Well, that's great. Thank you for setting that up to being the son of Zig Ziglar. How has your dad's, all of your dad's teaching and all that, affected and influenced what you do today?
Tom Ziglar: So I'll share a couple of things. First off, Dad did everything around. He said the number one reason for his success was his character and his integrity. So everything that he demonstrated, everything that he walked out, everything of who he was was around his virtues and his values. And so that's how we were brought up. So it was always not who's right, but what's right. So there's a higher standard. And of course, dad is a believer. As a Christian, he got invited everywhere. He spoke on the biggest stages in the world, fortune 500 companies, and government agencies. He could go anywhere as a speaker. He also would let people know about what he believed, but in a way that they were attracted to it. He always said, I want people to want what I have. And so he always represented that way. And so that kind of carried over for me and what I did now.
The challenge was always felt sorry for Jack Nicklaus' son who wanted to be on the PGA Tour. Because you can measure dad against son, right? Because you can see the scores on the scorecard. How many tournaments did you win? And always thought, oh, my gosh, that would be so hard. I never wanted to be a speaker. I never wanted to do what he did, or an author, and then it ends up that's what I'm doing. And so he never put the pressure on me to go and do that. And so when I first started speaking, I didn't want to. People kept saying, hey, you should go do that. You'll be good. You've got good stuff to say from your perspective. And then I went and talked, and my gut was in knots and anxious. Then the talk went well. I'm like, well, that was fun. And then the next one would come up and I'm like, oh, no, I can't. And so I had to basically sit myself down and say, why am I agonizing over this? And this is what I'd done. It wasn't anything dad did. It's something that I told myself. I told myself, people wanted me to be like my dad. And the way I was internalizing it as I thought, they wanted me to have his style, his personality, his charisma. And then I asked myself, do people really want that? And they're like, no, that's not what people want. Everybody wants you to be your authentic best version of yourself. And really, that's what dad wanted. He always told me, don't ever try to copy me. Don't try to copy anybody, just be you.
So once I internalized that and realized that I'm a nerd, and I've got a dry sense of humor, and I speak differently, that's when it became fun. So even though I had a lot of doorways open for me, because of my years in the industry and the brand, and people want to hear the Ziglar message, there was still that internal self awareness that I had to deal with myself on getting comfortable with, hey, you know what? You just got to take your gifts and talents, and elevate them. Be yourself when you go out there. Be prepared and do a great job. Don't try to be anybody else. So that was the big hurdle. And then in growing the business, I could never be the brand from the front of the stage like dad was. That's just not my personality. So we had to create a new business that got the same material out, but in a different way. And so that's what we do. I know you're intimately aware of what we do, but that's what I decided to do. So dad was there to inspire everybody to speak into their lives and motivate them one to one. I'm about equipping and developing our coaches, leaders, and our speakers so they can go out and make a difference in their community.
Scott Reib: You and I met back in 2013 when I went to one of the Bourne twin events in Houston. I can still remember today, you were nice enough to take me to the airport that day. We just met, we're driving in Houston traffic for about an hour and a half because you can't go anywhere in Houston faster than that. And we get to the airport and get on different planes back to Dallas. I call my dad and I'm like, Dad, you're not gonna believe what happened today. This was riding around with Tom Ziglar, the son of Zig Ziglar. It was very surreal because you're so full of your dad's wisdom. But it comes out of you as you. And it's just such a blessing to be able to be around you and soak all that up, because I missed getting to be around your dad for a couple of years. But it's been a privilege to be a part of as a legacy certified trainer, and then as the business attorney to be able to help you guys make that transition and continue the legacy. Part of continuing that legacy for you has been that you started writing books. So tell us about that journey because you've got two books now. You have to Choose To Win. That was your first book. When did that one come out?
Tom Ziglar: That came out in 2019, in the spring of 2019. And then the second book, 10 Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times came out in December of 2021.
Scott Reib: That's the most current one. Let's focus on that one. And so that came out right after the world went through COVID. He had described that book and kind of a paragraph, how would you describe it?
Tom Ziglar: A little backstory on it. When I had the first book, we created a simple template to send off to get bids from different publishers. And we had several publishers bid on it. And then Thomas Nelson the one to bid, they said, here's the deal. We want to do this book, and we want to do another book. And I said, well, what does that look like? And they said, well, we'll pay you twice as much for two books. And I said, okay, but I don't know what the next book is gonna be. And they said, don't worry about it, you've got a year. So that was 2018. So we signed that deal either at the end of 2017, or the very beginning of 2018. Because in the traditional publishing world, it takes almost a year to take a book from contract to the shelf. They need a six month runway for publishing, printing and all that stuff. So I'm thinking about what the next book is going to be in, then 2019 comes. They're like, hey, don't worry. We want to delay it a little bit. We want to give Choose To Win some more time. It's doing good, let's keep it going. And so at the end of 2019, they're like, hey, we're gonna need this manuscript in June of 2020. So I just started working on it, and then COVID hit. The whole publishing world shut down, all the world shut down. But Amazon, which is a major, like a huge percentage of the publishing world, they made books non essential.
China shut down so there was no more manufacturing. And the publisher came back and said, hey, the books on hold are probably six months, probably more like a year. So in March of 2020, I'm on hold. Then in April, I say, you know what? The new book is going to be about how the pandemic has changed leadership. So the whole book became this study. And so now for four years, I've been studying it for four years, how the pandemic has changed the way we lead people and also the core values that people have. Because if you remember when we shut down and people were getting sick, all this uncertainty was in the world. Remote work started. How do you lead a remote workforce? How do you inspire an organization that's isolated in all these different things? Well, the skills are different. And then we had to resign, and everybody started quitting their jobs. And some of them, I believe that at the end of the day, a huge majority of people who quit their job quit because their current job wasn't filling their soul. It wasn't what they were made for. It wasn't their calling and they just were complacent where they were. They were doing pretty good, but it wasn't their job that really brought meaning to their life and so they wanted to do something different. So the book became about three things. As a leader, what's the mindset that I need to have as a leader to embrace this disruption? Because disruption is only going to increase in intensity and frequency. I think over the next three years with AI and Chat GPT, and whatever's next, that's going to have far more impact on business than COVID. It's going to change the very nature of how we work.
So from a mindset perspective, disruption is evergreen. It's only going to increase. And so how do we treat each other? And that's where the 10 virtues come in. People, it's very important to people to be treated with kindness and respect. And the types of leaders that win are the ones who have humility, and who bring out the best in their people. And so the middle part, the big part of the book is about that. And then where the rubber meets the road is, we call it coach leadership. And that's where we teach the leader what we call our intentional coaching conversation, which is how you grow and develop your people. And it creates authority, autonomy, and empowerment in each person on your team. It gets alignment between their personal dreams and goals, and the mission and vision of the organization. And so when you have somebody on your team who's growing, and they're moving towards their purpose, and their quality of life is protected by the business and by leadership, they thrive. They don't want to go anywhere. And so that's what we do. And so that book has really taken on a life of its own.
We have a coaching program and a leadership program around it. We got one of the largest contracts we've ever had in history with a company taking their leadership through it, but all over the world on it. And it's really very simple and straightforward. If you're a leader, how do you attract, develop and keep top performers who then turn into leaders who develop, attract and keep top performers? And that's what the whole thing is about. And there's a lot of fun in the process. A lot of great relationships in the process. And it just works. And so we make it simple. We help these leaders actually implement. The other thing that's different about it is there is no such thing as one and done. So even though we teach it in a traditional classroom or online format, we combine it with coaching where we coach the leader how to coach their people. And so if you're a leader listening to this, have you ever been coached on how to coach your people? And at the end of the day, that's a priceless skill set.
Scott Reib: People might have heard me talk about before that you don't build a business, you build people to take it a step further. You don't just build people, you build people that are gonna build people. And the problem that you're pointing out is that we don't know how to do that. And so your book and your training program bridges that gap. Because you may have the right idea like, I want to build my people. But if you don't know how, then you've got a skills gap. And your program fills that in. That's such a need. And man, the timing was perfect. So if you had to pick one of the 10 Virtues, which one would you say is most significant?
Tom Ziglar: All of them. There's a bunch. And when I've taken the program to different companies, sometimes they'll bring me in for a keynote or half a day, and we can't do the whole program. And so I'll show him the 10 virtues and I'll say, okay, so I only have time to cover three. Which three do you want me to cover? And they all pick something different? And so it's very dependent on the culture and the current situation in a business as to which virtues they resonate around the most right now because they're all linked. One of the virtues is kindness. And another virtue is respect. Well, if you're not kind, you can't obviously show respect. You can't really show the right kind of respect without kindness. And so all the virtues are linked. They go hand in hand. But the one virtue that to me stands out is humility. I'm really going at the highest plane, at the highest spiritual level. So if you're a leader and you're like, I want the best chance of leading my people in any situation, whether it's through disruption, or trying time, or a conflict, or the best of times, then the foundational one that you really need to guard is humility. I'll just use politics as an example. If you were to think about it, there's not one candidate who in their campaign says, vote for me because my strength is wisdom. Nobody claims to be wise. And so when you dig into that, well, who do we really want? We want a wise president. We want a wise senator. We want a wise CEO. We want the owner of the business to have wisdom. And so why don't people acknowledge that? Well, because wisdom usually comes from mistakes. Wisdom usually comes from trying something that didn't work, and you have to go back and repent. You have to go back and make it right. So wisdom is hard earned. And so this is what I would say, humility is the tap root of wisdom.
So what's the opposite of humility? Well, it's arrogance or pride. So what keeps somebody from becoming wise? Arrogance and pride. And so what does that mean? Well, the right leader, they don't want their plan to succeed. They want what's best for the business to succeed. If you're an owner, or if you've been leading for a while, you're the CEO, you've had to earn that position. You've got a vision, and you've got a path that you want to take the business on. And then somebody comes in and they have a little bit different plan, or a little bit different idea, or a little bit different tweak, it takes a lot of humility to sit back and allow that information to come in. And then to judge it from the perspective of, does this give our business a better chance to succeed? And if it does, then letting go of what was good so you can embrace the best. So at the end of the day, it's that humility where a leader can say, that's a better way. Or I messed up over here, or that's my responsibility. That's where humility really comes in. So a lot of times, people are confused. They think humility means you're weak. It actually means you're super strong. It means that you can own your own decision and change direction, or accept responsibility when it's on you. Because it's what's best for the organization and what's best for the relationships that you're entrusted with.
Scott Reib: That's powerful. Well, Tom, because I know you, I know you're a Christ follower, how does your faith influence your approach to business and writing books?
Tom Ziglar: There's two things. When I'm trying to figure out how to do something, for me, the first one is it in alignment with God's will. And that is easiest discerned by your relationship because I call myself a Christ follower instead of a Christian because everybody says they're a Christian. And to me, it's like, well, if Christ said and did it, I'm following it. And so whatever Christ affirmed, said and did, to me, that's the definition of a Christ follower. And a lot of Christians aren't following what Christ said and did. So that's a high standard. So I have that personal relationship, and then I know what God's word says. So that's like the first standard. And then the second is what's my motive behind it. And this is where a lot of people get off track. They get on the right track, and then success starts to happen, they start seeing a change. Then something comes in whether it's a lack of humility or something else. Their motive starts to be self interested in what's best for me instead of what's best for the mission, or the cause, or the higher goal, or purpose. And that's where people get in trouble. So if your response is always, before you respond to a difficult situation, if you really say, okay, how I respond needs to align with God's direction. And the tone and the driving force of my response should be based on my motive. And if your motive is to defend or to put somebody in their place or to win at their expense, then you need to step back before you have that conversation. That's why in the course, in the 10 leadership virtues, we teach businesses to really share your mission, your vision and your values constantly. Because if somebody on your team misbehaves, they violate one of those things.
As a leader in my past, I took it personally. I can't believe they did that to me. They know that we don't do that. But the reality is really not between that person and me. That misbehavior is really between that person and the mission of the business. And so if our core value of the business is integrity and somebody acts without integrity, they do something that's harmful to integrity. Lack of integrity. As a leader, I can say, you know what? That problem is between them and the mission of the company, the values of the company. And so now, I don't get personally involved from an emotional perspective. I can go and coach them. I can say to that person, hey, what's the mission of our company? Great, they repeat it. What are the values we live by? They repeat it. Well, can you share with me what you did that fulfills the mission and values of our company that takes the heat off a leader, and allows the leader to make a good decision based on that person's response without it being an emotional, personal thing. And it's hard as a leader not to feel like you're stabbed in the back sometimes because that's why it happens.
Scott Reib: Wow, that's so powerful. That's why we push mission and core values so hard, because if you don't have them, you're not able to do that. There's nothing for you to go back and tag to have that coaching conversation, and then it becomes personal from both sides. And that just doesn't go well. Then you mentioned that you've got to be sharing those not enough to create them. You got to be sharing them regularly so that they're not just something that you're living by and running your company by. But the theme you're building is also aware of them as they're making decisions that affect the business. It's so powerful.
Tom Ziglar: What is the right thing to do? It's never wrong to do what's right.
Scott Reib: Okay, you mentioned technology and Chat GPT. Some people are scared of it. I'm trying to embrace it and learn how to harness and use it. I know you are too. Tell me how you see that affecting business in the near future?
Tom Ziglar: Yep. So we actually have developed an app called Zig GPT. And all it is it plugs into Chat GPT. And what it does is we can take an audio recording. So if I give a speech, I can drop it in. If one of our coaches is coaching somebody, most of our coaching is done on Zoom these days and we asked for permission to record on Zoom. That way, we can send our client the recording. And it's pretty cool. And so we tell them that we're going to drop it into Zig GPT. And so what it does is it instantly transcribes that recording through a technology. Chat GPT right now has limiters on it. You can't put more than 20 minutes or something into it. But our app gets around all that. And then we can prompt it just like you do Chat GPT. So we can say that from this presentation, take out our list of Top 5 learning points, five action steps and five implementation strategies to take on those action steps. And like 60 seconds later, you've got a five page PDF of a summary of that whole presentation, everything. With coaching, we can do the same thing. We can take that coaching conversation and break it down. So what does that do? Well, it allows the coach to send that PDF back to the client almost instantly. So within 20 minutes of the coaching call, there can be a complete summary with action steps, everything detailed out a transcription, a link to the video, all that goes back to the value to the customer goes through the roof, but it also saves the coach a ton of time. Because a great coach at the end of the call, they're going to look at their notes. They're going to write up a report. And an hour later, they're going to have all this stuff done. Well now, it's 20 minutes, and it's better. Because in our process, the coach can add their own notes into it wherever they want.
And so here's the big takeaway. Chat GPT is gonna, in AI in general, is going to dramatically change the way we do business across the world. And so the question is, do you look at that as a threat to the way you've always done business? And are you kind of the ostrich with your head in the sand hoping you can hang on to what you've been doing and retire before it gets to you? Or do you look at it the way we do, which is we embrace it as a technology that doesn't replace a relationship, but instead allows us to have a deeper and more meaningful relationship with the value we deliver? And it creates time in our day where we can actually spend more one on one time in a relationship. I can make more calls, I can make more informed calls. I had a keynote last week, and it was an association group of homeowners association. So think of all these homeowners associations, and they have a board, and a president, or an elected member. And then there's a governing body that does all the bylaws, and does the education, and training, and advises homeowners associations on what to do in certain cases.
So I spoke to 150 of these homeowners associations, people in the Metroplex. And so before I go to the speech, I typed into Chat GPT, okay, so what are the skills that a homeowner association manager would need in order to be effective in their job? And so instantly, I got 12 skills. And then I said, okay, now, what are the main tensions that a homeowner association manager faces with a homeowner? I already knew a lot of it because of my interviews with them, but I was able to bridge their needs with the Ziglar solution in 20 minutes versus a day of research. And so helped me to understand how that's a negative. If I do it in replace of a relationship, it can get you in trouble because Chat GPT isn't right all the time. But if I do it to take what the value I deliver to the next level, then wow. I just showed him, I said, hey, here are the 12 skills that if you worked on for an hour every day, how good would you be at your job a year from now? And they were like, yeah, exactly. Those are our problems. Those are our skills. And I said, but you know what the problem is? And then the next slide was a picture of a blonde with big eyes kind of yelling, and I had Karen across the bottom of it. I said, but the problem is, you do all that stuff. And then you meet Karen, right? So that's the relationship. So how do we, as humans, ask questions and have relationships with people who are bringing baggage to the meeting? That's what it's all about. I love Artificial Intelligence. I would say that I'm optimistically weary and optimistic because of how I think it can benefit people. Wary because like any tool in the wrong hands, it can cause some major problems. But for the meantime, I'm using it to benefit our people.
Scott Reib: Yeah, that's how I see it. It's a lever that we can use to leverage time. And then by leveraging time, you can either do more work, or you can go play more, whichever is the right thing for you at that time. We were at an event together a couple of weeks ago, and someone used the analogy of when tractors were invented, people were scared of tractors. And now, you're faced with this great tool, just like tractors changed farming and agriculture forever. Chat GPT is changing everything in the business world. And if you don't know how to use it, you're going to be left behind unless you're going to retire this year. Otherwise, it's skills that you need to learn. It's not hard to learn. But you've got to, like you said, not keep your head buried in the sand. As we start to wrap up, tell me where Ziglar is going in the future? What's the next big thing?
Tom Ziglar: I'm really excited about 2024. We have two major programs that we really support and drive. Actually, three. They're all kind of in the same bucket. One is our Ziglar Legacy Certification and that is if you're a speaker or trainer and you want to be equipped to carry on the Ziglar message. The other is our coaching. And in our coaching, we have two main categories. We have our life coaching around two programs, Choose To Win and See You at the Top. And that is really powerful. So we have so many coaches who've come in since the pandemic who started new careers. And then we have leaders who were like, gosh, I love coaching. I just want to use this in my whole life and everything. And when you learn coaching skills, it impacts everything. Your family relationships, your church relationships, the team that you work with. And then we have our coach leader, coach program, which is based on the 10 Leadership Virtues book, and that's kind of the coaches that come in. They love coaching leaders, so it's more of the Executive Coach person. But the thread is you have to have the right mindset. You have to have these core values, these 10 virtues, and then we're going to coach you how to coach your people. And so it's a legacy program. Because when you coach a leader how to coach their people, then eventually, those people, some are going to be getting promoted into leadership. They're going to coach and lead their people exactly the way they were led and coached. And so imagine changing the DNA of your business, and how you develop your people. You're setting up a succession plan for leadership when you do that. And it's very intentional. And so those are the three things I still speak and do, all that stuff.
But really, if I can convince anyone, I would say, the best thing you can do in your life in 2024 is become a coach. And there's three ways you could look at it. You got to learn how to coach yourself. Because if you can't sit back and coach yourself, how are you going to grow others if you can't grow yourself? Second, if you're in leadership or in business, you have to grow your team, your family. And then some might want to become a coach from a business perspective, which is great. But if you make that jump to, I'm going to be a coach then what you've just done is you've committed to developing and investing in yourself so that you can help other people do and have more than they thought possible. So that coach commitment is a commitment to grow yourself. So you can make other people help other people achieve their dreams. And there's nothing better than sleeping at night knowing that other people are achieving their dreams because of your input. And that's an awesome thing.
Scott Reib: So where can they go if someone wants to get involved in what you're doing?
Tom Ziglar: ziglar.com, we have all the information there. I also will give my email out, tom@ziglar.com. So that's not a hard one to remember, tom@ziglar.com, and just say, hey, I heard you and Scott talk, and I want to know more. I'll connect you with the right people.
Scott Reib: Well, thank you for doing that. Really appreciate you coming on the show. I think it's full value. I can't wait to get through the 10 virtues and know that everyone else is probably picking that up too.
As we part, I'd like to offer you a blessing. May the road rise to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, and may the rain fall soft upon your fields. Until we meet again. May God hold you in the palm of his hand. Thanks, Tom. Thanks for being in the shatterproof room.
I hope everyone else will join us next week for the next episode of The Shatterproof Entrepreneur. Have a great day.